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00:00:00 – 00:38:29
The video features historian and writer Ivan Jablonka discussing his concept of the "third continent" of literature, which he terms the "literature of reality." This genre bridges the gap between fiction and scholarly research, blending elements from investigations, biographies, and diaries grounded in real events and analysis. Jablonka emphasizes the importance of this hybrid literature in enhancing our understanding of human experiences through a combination of literary and social science methodologies. He cites the works of authors like Annie Ernaux and Emmanuel Carrère as examples, highlighting the significant narrative potential of this genre.
The discussion further touches on the evolving landscape of literature, arguing for the inclusion of literary techniques in social sciences to make scholarly research more accessible and engaging. Jablonka reflects on his personal journey, advocating for a methodological feminism to incorporate emotions and creativity into academic research. This approach challenges the traditional detached academic model, which often dismisses these elements as irrelevant.
Jablonka's work, including his family autobiography and the miniseries "Laetitia," showcases his commitment to blending personal narrative with historical investigation. The conversation also delves into the role of testimony in understanding historical events, with references to influential figures like Primo Levi and Simone Veil. Jablonka calls for greater transparency and honesty in writing, moving beyond outdated notions of subjectivity and objectivity to foster a deeper connection with readers. The overall theme underscores the value of integrating literary creativity with scholarly rigor to enrich both fields.
00:00:00
In this segment of the video, the discussion revolves around Ivan Jablonka, a historian and writer, elaborating on his thesis about the “third continent” of literature which he calls the literature of reality. Jablonka explains that this literature is distinct as it bridges fiction and scholarly research, encompassing genres like investigations, biographies, and diaries, which are grounded in real events and analysis. He mentions his recent readings and the profound impact they had on his understanding of writing true stories. Jablonka argues that this literature deserves recognition and describes his role not as its discoverer but as a cartographer, mapping this essential but often underappreciated field of writing. He stresses the value and dignity of these texts for their contribution to knowledge.
00:05:00
In this segment of the video, the discussion revolves around the evolving landscape of literature and its overlap with social sciences. The speaker emphasizes that modern literary originality and innovations have been emerging over the past 20-30 years, referring to this space as the “third continent.” There is a debate on what constitutes literature, arguing that it should not be confined to fiction alone. Conversely, social sciences, traditionally seen as purely academic, can offer spaces for literary experimentation. The speaker mentions their personal journey and how institutions have gradually become more accepting of blending scholarly research with personal narrative, as seen in their work on a family autobiography. The aim is to elevate scholarly work by making it accessible and pleasurable to a broader audience, not just academic peers. The speaker advocates for exploring these hybrid spaces between literature and social sciences to reflect more profound ideas and shared human experiences.
00:10:00
In this part of the video, the discussion revolves around the concept of “literature of the real,” which is defined as a form of literary creation that merges intellectual and social science tools to produce new narratives. This literature is characterized by its hybridity, combining elements of history, sociology, autobiography, and cognitive processes into a unique genre that defies traditional classification. The mention of authors like Annie Hernaud and Emmanuel Carrère exemplifies this genre, focusing on the creation within the social sciences to tell profound truths. The term “non-fiction” is debated, with a preference for focusing on “investigation” as the central concept, arguing that understanding and investigating human experiences are more significant than traditional fiction in this context.
00:15:00
In this part of the video, the discussion revolves around the nature of reality and how it must not only be described but also understood and analyzed through knowledge production. The speaker emphasizes the importance of investigation, even in philosophical terms, and highlights the methodologies used by writers like Annie Ernaux and Ivan Jablonka, who employ reasoning from social sciences such as sociology and history.
The segment further explains that many works considered literary are deeply intertwined with social science methodologies, often creating new research objects long before professional historians or sociologists do. Notably, it mentions Primo Levi as a pioneering historian of the Holocaust, who contributed significantly despite being categorized under literature.
The speaker critiques the traditional academic approach to history, which has been rigid and slow to adapt to new research objects. They argue that important historical forms and new research often emerge from writers outside the institutional history research categories. Moreover, the transition from the 19th century, which heavily influenced academic disciplines, to more modern approaches is discussed, emphasizing the need for writing that encompasses both cognitive and literary ambitions, similar to ancient historians like Herodotus and Thucydides.
00:20:00
In this part of the video, the speakers discuss the professional detachment often required in academic fields such as history and philosophy. They critique the traditional university model of the late 19th century, which promoted a neutral, almost dehumanized approach to research. This model posited the researcher as a rational, detached figure, disconnected from human emotions and social contexts.
The conversation delves into how this model was gendered, portraying academic masculinity as devoid of emotion and literature. The idea was that great historians and sociologists resembled great men of history, studying grand events while dismissing elements like emotions and creative writing as feminine and irrelevant.
The speakers suggest that a methodological feminism could counter this by incorporating those rejected elements—emotions, rational writing, and creativity—into academic research to enhance knowledge creation.
In addition, a trailer for the miniseries “Laetitia,” directed by Jean-Xavier de l’Estrade, is mentioned, which was based on a text by Ivan Jablonka. The conversation shifts to Ivan Jablonka’s transition from a traditional historian to a more literary and human-centered approach, referencing his works and how they reflect his aspirations for blending literature with academic research.
00:25:00
In this segment, Jablonka discusses the turning point where he decided to merge his roles as a historian and a writer. He reflects on a period of discomfort living as an apprentice historian by day and a hidden novelist by night. Writing a book about his grandparents, he chose to blend historical investigation with personal narrative, creating a literary form that conveyed emotions and relationships alongside historical facts. This decision liberated him and brought him happiness. He acknowledges that while this approach may cause conflicts and rivalries in the academic world, it has inspired other historians to explore personal and familial subjects. He believes this method supports the emergence of new forms of writing within historical research. The conversation also touches on the parallel between history and journalism, both descending from a tradition of narrative and investigation, highlighting the 20th century’s influence in shaping modern storytelling forms due to its mass violence and significant historical events.
00:30:00
In this segment of the video, the speakers discuss the importance of testimony and how intellectuals and writers like Primo Levi and Simone Veil were witnesses trying to understand their experiences. They talk about the role of literature in making sense of historical events like the Holocaust. Jean-Jacques Goldman is mentioned as an example of someone grappling with Jewish identity, feeling uncomfortable with religious Jews despite claiming Jewish identity. The speakers also discuss the book “The Imaginary Jew” and Yvan Jablonka’s empathy-driven writing approach. Jablonka emphasizes writing from a collective perspective, addressing themes such as Jewishness, integration, and societal issues, while questioning the possibility of complete objectivity in historical writing.
00:35:00
In this part of the video, the speaker discusses the concept of honesty in writing, particularly the importance of being transparent with readers about the process of arriving at the truth through investigation. They argue that honesty should replace the outdated notions of subjectivity and objectivity, criticizing the pseudo-neutrality of the past. The speaker emphasizes writing not only for readers but also for personal fulfillment and to address broader democratic and republican concerns. Additionally, the speaker’s works like “The Third Continent” and “Goldman” are mentioned, and the segment concludes with the speaker’s music choice and acknowledgments to the production team.